Down with the Danes
Happy New Year to all Muslim brothers and sisters!!!!
It's not been a very pleasant start to the new year, what with the whole Danish cartoon fiasco. At least the whole ruckus has not been futile. According to 7 days, Danish companies suffered Dhs 200 million in lost sales in just one day due to boycott of Danish products.
And is it justified? I was quite ambivalent about it and even though I'm teetering on the side of 'yes, it is', the 'No,it's not' side still beckons: is any of this the fault of the owners of these brands? How are the employees of this company to balme? Why should they suffer (as the corporations will definitely pass the buck)?
But then I think, Yes, let them suffer ... it means more pressure on the government to apologize publicly. More reason for them to think twice before printing the cartoon (or something similar)again.
A poll reveals that majority of Danish citizens feel their government shouldn't apologise. Some say that's the way to go ... that it's not the government that published the cartoon, but the magazine. But then, has the magazine apologized?
Editor-in-chief Carsten Juste refused. “We live in a democracy," he says ."That’s why we can use all the journalistic methods we want to. Satire is accepted in this country, and you can make caricatures. Religion shouldn’t set any barriers on that sort of expression. This doesn’t mean that we wish to insult any Muslims.”
Cultural editor Flemming Rose concurred. “Religious feelings,” he observed, “cannot demand special treatment in a secular society. In a democracy one must from time to time accept criticism or becoming a laughingstock.”
Democracy my ass. Freedom-of-speech .... my $#@& ass!!!!!
What about BBC's Popetown: a controversial cartoon series that mocks the Pope and the Vatican, that was never aired following pressure from the Catholic Church?
BBC's own website reports on Spetemebr 23, 2004: (my notes in brackets)
"After much consideration, Stuart Murphy, Controller of BBC THREE, has taken the difficult decision not to transmit the animation series Popetown on editorial grounds.
The decision has been supported by Jana Bennett, Director of Television, and follows consultation with the Controller of Editorial Policy, Stephen Whittle and Head of Religion and Ethics, Alan Bookbinder.
Representations had also been made from various groups who feared from the basic premise of the comedy series, which is set in a fictional Vatican, that it would cause offence to practising Catholics. (well, at least the BBC has the head to rationalise on basis of what might or might not offend viewers)
Stuart Murphy said: "Popetown was a challenging project for BBC THREE to undertake.
"After a lot of consideration and consultation, balancing the creative risk with the potential offence to some parts of the audience, we have decided not to transmit the programme. (a consideration the Danes obviously lack)
"Despite all of the creative energy that has gone into this project and the best efforts of everyone involved, the comic impact of the delivered series does not outweigh the potential offence it will cause. (really Danes, was it worth it for you?)
"It has been an extremely difficult and complex decision to make. There is a fine judgement line in comedy between the scurrilously funny and the offensive. (HELLO .... Sanity calling Editor Juste)
"I knew when we developed the series that there was risk involved but unfortunately, once we saw the finished series, it became clear that the programme fell on the wrong side of that line."
Jana Bennett says: "I'm sorry that this programme will not be coming to the screen, but I think the decision is the right one."
So there you go. Where is bloody freedom of fucking speech when it comes to the Pope?
Please admit it, the West (and include any and all generalizations in that: the US, the EU, Christian, what have you) sees it fit to exercise these rules only in their own interests.
What makes the Pope better (or worthy of more consideration) than the Holy Prophet PBUH?
The Danish Government should apologize, as should the magazine and the creators of the cartoon.
I've put up a link to this entry in the comments section of a post on MediaWatchWatch.org.uk addressing this issue. Keep an eye on it if you are interested in viewing the obtuseness of the Gora Gadhas.
posted by bakpakchik @ 10:25 PM
22 Comments:
Question Muslims need to ask themselves
How many of the countries currently boycotting Danish products would have done the same if the cartoons were published in the US?
Isn’t it equally insulting that the US can bomb and kill innocent people in our countries and no apology is asked of them?
Isn’t it more insulting that no where in any of these Muslim countries do we follow what the Prophet PBUH taught us?
Questions that Muslims should ask the Danish and all other so called free countries:
Where is this Freedom of Speech when people want to discuss the Holocaust?
Why are there laws (such as in Canada and France) where even speaking against the Holocaust can land you in Jail?
How is tolerance of other religion promoted when no one can even talk about religion in schools?
Where is the Freedom of Speech when Israel dictates to News Papers what they can or cannot say (News papers of these freedom loving governments have been instructed by Israeli lobbies on several occasion to change their vocabulary such as calling the Wall a fence or defensive barrier, to called occupied territories disputed etc.).
O
Exactly O! Exactly!!!!!
Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh. People drive me nuts.
Wow, you actually managed screw up your facts completely.. You talk about the pope not being ridiculed.. Have you even read a Danish newspaper?? When he was appointed he was described as "Adolf II" by some newspapers, and as the "Panzer-Pope" by others.
In other words stop behaving like a spoiled little kid, who wants the entire world to revolve around your own personal beliefs. That muslims don't depict Mohammad shouldn't mean that non-muslims shouldn't be allowed to do so. It's a case of megalomania on the part of the mulims, you can't tell people living in a democracy what to think, say or write. (I can see how this may be odd to you, as most muslims live in countries where democracy doesn't exist - how many muslim democracies exist?? My point exactly!)
Freedom of speech in Denmark is restricted only if you misuse it to make threats, and if you make false accusations. Everything else is fair play. If you can't handle that well then you are simply too pathetic to be of any concern to anyone. Sticks and stones, sticks and stones.
And you might stop and consider the damage you are causing the muslims living in Denmark by your foolish actions. Do you really think you are making their lives any better, do you not understand that they will be blamed for your actions. The muslims in Denmark already live on the fringe of society, most of them are on wellfare, they are 7 times more likely to commit a serious crime, they are 18 times less likely to enter college, let alone finish college. But thanks for making their lives even more miserable, thank you very much.
You seem to have ignored the question I asked about your double standards on freedom of speech.
Oh and by the way we do not want democracy we want Islamic Rule but the democratically elected international community piss in their pants every time an Islamic party wins election. Then it is a case of we wanted you to have democracy but not that. Don't elect who you want but elect who we want.
Democratic Muslim Countries to name a few are Malaysia, Iran (yes they have democracy the leaders get elected), Bangladesh etc.
Freedom of speech in Denmark is restricted only if you misuse it to make threats, and if you make false accusations.
And they did exactly that false accusation.
Plus the Muslim world is exercising their right of not purchasing Dutch products. Why do you want to deny us that right?
And isn’t it irresponsible of the Dutch newspapers weren’t THEY thinking about the Danes that are living in the Muslim world?
O
oh yes please .... let's :)
One Word Zubdel. Just Google and see what has happened to this guy. In Jail for even talking about it.
O
Hi BPC, I followed your link in the mediawatchwatch comments page.
Have you (or indeed others criticising them) actually seen the cartoons? They're here: http://www.newspaperindex.com/blog/2005/12/10/un-to-investigate-jyllands-posten-racism/
I'd say that 3 of them are possibly attacking Muslims and thus I can understand why they'd be offensive per se: the 4th, 5th and 11th ones (although the inherent offensiveness of the 5th one I'm not entirely convinced about since the only systematic suicide attackers I can think of in the whole of human history have been Japan's kamikaze pilots during World War II and the suicide bombers who all call themselves muslim, and that cartoon doesn't imply that mohammed is a suicide bomber, merely that he would normally welcome them into heaven).
The mohammed in the 4th one actually looks rather like the racist carricatures of Jews that one used to find (and still can do in fascist publications).
One of them (the 2nd) has him with a halo, implying that he is holy and good, one of them (the 6th) has a drawing that is clearly not of the mohammed, but a kid called mohammed in a school classroom who's apparently written in arabic something insulting about Jylland-Posten journalists (that they're a bunch of reactionary provocateurs).
2 of them (8th & 12th) appear to have a carricature of the same white man wearing a turban, who I'd guess is the Jyllands-Posten editor, one of them with an orange in the turban saying "PR stunt" and the other holding a placard that I can't make out, but I bet is mildly offensive towards the editor.
That leaves 1, 3, 7, 9 & 10.
#1 is just a picture of an arabic looking bloke with a donkey, hardly offensive and probably not a million miles from the truth (if mohammed existed).
#3 has his face incorporating a crescent and star motif. Nothing insulting there.
#7 has a cartoonist drawing a picture of an arabic-looking bloke but doing so in fear, shielding it from any prying eyes. Given the reaction, that seems pretty fair to me.
#9 I don't know what the hell's going on there, it seems to be some figurative representation of beams of light with a star 'n' crescent dealy going on, like they're calling for batman or something (I don't speak danish, so I don't know what the text says, but it starts with "Prophet!" so I'd guess that it's not too offensive
#10 contains an implication by the cartoonist that they would be threatened but has the (preseumably, since it's supposed to be representations of him) mohammed figure saying "relax guys, it's just a sketch made by a Dane from south-west Denmark." I fail to see how anyone could be offended by an implication that mohammed is a reasonable intelligent being who doesn't go voer the top about silly cartoons.
On your substantive point about the pope and suchlike not being attacked, the BBC claimed popetown was withdrawn for artistic reasons. I've seen it and it's shit, so maybe they were telling the truth. It's simply not funny, and thus causes offence on an aesthetic level as well as a religious one. However, your implication that the BBC wouldn't do something that offends christians is misplaced. They broadcast Jerry Springer: The Opera, which many christians found offensive because they said it portrayed jesus as a homosexual who got his sexual kicks from wearing a baby's nappy (it occurs in a dream sequence). In fact, the christians claimed exactly what you are claiming, namely that the BBC wouldn't have broadcast it.
Also, you're conflating 2 different media. The BBC is a publicly funded broadcaster that (Jeery Spring: The Opera apart) strives all the time not to offend and has a duty to provide balance. The newspapers all over Europe have no such duty and often strive to offend all and sundry (see, for example, http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,,1284265,00.html and while there click on the Martin Rowson link for other wonderfully offensive and witty cartoons).
O - people are free to discuss the holocaust, but in certain coutries in Europe are not free to dispute the fact that it happened. And it did happen. This is because, in countries such as Germany, for example, they feel an enormous and understandable guilt and shame for their role in this. They go out of their way to ensure that fascism cannot rear its ugly head again. And it wasn't just jews butchered, although they comprised about half of the dead, it was socialists, gypsies, trade unionists, the disabled, gays and many other undesirables. Your implications otherwise make you look like a fascist and a moron. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I'm a strong supporter of the Palestinians and cannot stand the way the state of Israel is behaving, and can even understand why they have resorted to suicide bombing, given that everything else has failed over the past 39 years since the occupation, however to try to deny the holocaust because the state of Israel are being utter cunts now is utterly ridiculous.
Also, unless I've missed something, you seem to be conflating the words Dutch and Danish, which is like conflating the words Moroccan and LIbyan.
I'm not sure where you've got the follwowing idea from: "How is tolerance of other religion promoted when no one can even talk about religion in schools?" Certainly in all of Europe that I know about and america one can talk about religion in schools. That's what Religious Education is for. It's forced upon children in Britain, for example, up to the age of 14. The place in america where it's not allowed is in the science classroom, where some fundamentalists are trying to teach biblical literalism as scientific factr, with claims that the world is only 6,000 years old there is no such thing as evolution.
Regarding Israel making newspapers change their terminology, I just don't see that. The papers and the TV news in britain call it a wall, simple as that. they also point out how illegal it is and have shown several programmes and run several stories pointing out just where it's deviating from the pre-'67 borders and what the human costs of this are (families separated from each other/their olive groves for example). Yes, Israel and Jewish lobby groups are prone to squawking insults like anti-semite (in extremis) at anyone who dares criticise their beloved Israel, but that doesn't mean that people are listening. In fact, it seems that the media have recently (over the last few years) finally got wise to their tactic and started ignoring them (especially since the israelis are being bigger bastards than ever with the wall & all). Aping their tactics and protesting wildly about everything will do your cause no good and will simply make you look irrational and unreasonable. Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?
your second question "Isn’t it equally insulting that the US can bomb and kill innocent people in our countries and no apology is asked of them?" was absolutely spot on. The behaviour of the US is a disgrace, and your whingeing about a bunch of stupid cartoons merely drowns out your good points in a metaphorical sea of crap.
finally, are you absolutely sure that all muslims want a caliphate? Sure, Hizb-Ut-Tahrir do, but how numerous are they really? I'll bet a pound to a penny that the majority of muslims would rather have democracy than a caliphate any day of the week.
oops: undesirables should have been in quotation marks there
Happy new year to only muslim brothers and sisters.....
well, no point wishing islamic new year to anyone else ....
correct me if i'm wrong, but unlike christmas - which excites allreligions equally - Al Hijri isn't much of a crowd-pleaser.
:)
xill-e-ilahi - you don't allow others to draw mohammed? who the fuck are you to stop non-muslims drawing whatever they like. Frankly, I'm sure that denmark (principal exports: pork products, beer and wind turbines) isn't all that bothered about muslim countries boycotting its products anyway.
One good hornet's nest deserves another, I suppose.
Reading all the above comments made me feel like I was in Sainsbury's at 5 pm on a Friday trying to keep my trolley as far away from aisle-rage as possible.
It never ceases to amaze me how much aggression hides behind our smiles.
News Update:
The editor of a French newspaper France Soir fired over the cartoon issue. Detaisl here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4673908.stm
I said this before, and ill say it here too, you danes can print all you want, we will boycott and cause others to boycott, thats our choice and our right too.
As if the Danes really care! I guess someone else has also mentioned it before here that their principle exports are beer and pork...Muslims boycotting beer and pork? Riiiiight...
if freedom of the press is so easily available in france and other such european countries, why isn't freedom of religion (wearing a hijab for which you can get expelled from schools.)?
@ D,
It never ceases to amaze me how much people want to remain ignorant.
Maybe deep down we all want to be right. Maybe it is this want that prevents us from ignoring truth so that we can hold on to a lie.
@ The Girl Who Sold The World and tom p
What sort of freedom is it where you are forced to hide your beliefs?
As for the holocaust, if you are allowed to make claims against the number that died why are there still people who say six million Jews died? Auschwitz shrinking numbers are documented fact so why is there still so much ignorance about it?
I have no argument to win. You can choose to ignore my comments. You can choose to make the effort and find out exactly what I am talking about. The journey is yours I am just pointing out that the direction you are pointing in may not be the right one.
O
@ the person above me
If you get pleasure out of that then go ahead do it!
and i dont get it.. if people think muslims are terrorists then what good are they doing to themselves by pissing the "terrorists" off?
Dear Finnish Nazi,
We support you in your quest to strengthen your beliefs on freedom of speech and invite you to visit us in Pakistan, where you can lead us out of the darkness and into the light. You will find a huge number of us that will support you and give you a great welcome. Please give us your home address where we can send you a first class ticket to come to our country. You will be our leader. We have a great reception planned for you.
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I do not know what to give for Christmas of the to friends, advise something ....
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